drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  32

  Why Are Jehovah's Witnesses NOT "The Truth"???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  list your reasons why you can say that the witnesses clearly do not have "the truth".

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  drew sagan

  23,000 posts and you'r still asking ;)
  
  My reasoning is pretty basic on this subject. I believe their entire religion rests upon the claim that Jesus Christ chose them in 1918/1919.
  
  Problem is the only "evidence" we have for this event is J.F Rutherford claiming it happened, to a religion he started. Nobody ever saw Jesus. The Watchtower has only contradicting evidence to support their claims on this. It's all goofy conjecture.
  
  So when it comes to the biggest claim the religion makes, there is next to nothing offered in the way of evidence to prove it. Thus, their "truth" is bogus.
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  9

  Mental health and JW's

  by drewrocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm hoping someone can clear this up for me.

  i was recently released from an inpatient behavioral health unit.

  i was wondering jw's stance on mental disorders and tratment.

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  drew sagan

  A great talk on this issue can be found at this link:
  
  Jerry Bergman - Jehovah's Witnesses and Mental Illness
  
  It may give you some insight.
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  52

  Comments You Won't Hear at the 11-25-07 WT Study (w07 10/1, pp.26-30)

  by minimus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  deliverance from the traps of the birdcatcher.

  "[jehovah] himself will deliver you from the trap of the birdcatcher.

  the trap of personal differences.

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  drew sagan

  Wow! I'm impressed! You actually posted some INFORMATION!

  LOL!!!
  
  BTW, good job minimus ;)
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  53

  How would u respond? Reply from Elder who I let in on the pedophile cases

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "...i can not believe that you have fallen for that stupid trick ... you know better then that how can you let that happen to you ...this how you show your love for jehovah you are a fool big time i am sorry to say that but you was a mature man but know you have been blinded by the devil think about bwhat you are thinking and talking .... i will tell you something i am going to call every brother that you were close to not to listen to your demonic issues and i cannot believe you have become an agent for the devil, so sad.

  wake -up before it is to late....".

  think he actually read the issue at hand?.

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  drew sagan

  During me and my wifes judicial committee I could tell that the Elders we where talking to really feared us. Eventually we where asked to leave the room.
  
  But we know what they said in that room when we where gone ;)
  
  One Elder suggested that we had a demon in us and that is why we where so scary.
  
  It's a typical trick they use to justify not having to engage. It's how they justify running away from you and not "standing firm for the truth".
  
  As a follow up to my JC story I actually did get the chance to talk to one of the Elders from that JC alone. During that discussion I showed him a few articles from various religious groups where the leadership used the bogus idea of 'demons' to paint people who challenged them in a negative way. He was actually quite embarrassed and admitted that using demons to ignore questions was wrong (he didn't know I heard what they where saying in the room).
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  23

  Official Watchtower response to NBC...

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure it has been posted here, but i didn't see it so i'll put it up: .

  on the front page is a response from the watchtower to nbc.

  it reads: response to nbc.

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  drew sagan

  Sunspot,
  I was just about to post that very thought.
  
  They are using the context of civil cases to try and prove that a certain form of criminal activity is rare! How about all the times child molesters in the organization have not been sued but have been prosecuted and convicted of the crime? Those numbers would reveal that child molestation is at least as common as it is everywhere else. But they way they word it here is a way they try to make themselves look better.
  
  I really think this ignorant comment is more for the JW membership. A cheap reasoning they can use to justify the situation.
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  18

  JW's, ordainment, mandatory reporting, and culpability....

  by avishai in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during the vietnam war, the jw's were insistent on stating that pioneers were "clergy" and i don't think they've ever revised that.

  now, many states have included "clergy" as mandatory reporters in cases of child abuse, so in the case of jw's, culpability for non-reporting would apply to pioneers (and possibly publishers) as well as elders.

  interesting, no?.

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  drew sagan

  Thanks for the quote Oracle
  
  Such vague statements can be interpreted however you want to slice it. Remember that the WTS never has defined the term minister in a way that would suggest that every member shares the same amount of authority in the congregation.
  
  All the WTS would have to do is show how their own "internal" language works and I think little confusion would be left, from a legal perspective.
  
  It's all in how that state defines "clergy". I don't see anything the WTS has published that would make its members fall into that category.
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  18

  JW's, ordainment, mandatory reporting, and culpability....

  by avishai in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during the vietnam war, the jw's were insistent on stating that pioneers were "clergy" and i don't think they've ever revised that.

  now, many states have included "clergy" as mandatory reporters in cases of child abuse, so in the case of jw's, culpability for non-reporting would apply to pioneers (and possibly publishers) as well as elders.

  interesting, no?.

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  drew sagan

  Leolaia
  Their use use of the term "minister" for the JW laity is really speaking about their "door to door Bible education work" (one of the more absurd phrases they have been using lately).
  
  The terminologies used within the group mean little in a legal setting IMO. The Watchtowers published statements on what defines a minister are so vague that they never could be shown to mean what the rest of the world would see as a "clergy".
  
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  10

  MICROBES ON NOAH'S ARK

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did noah's family have immunity from microbes?.

  if so,when did mankind lose its immunity..

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  drew sagan

  During my entire trip through the Watchtower I never actually believed some of the hard line positions they took regarding Bible stories such as Noahs' Ark. Of course I simply filed my thinking on the topics away believing that it wasn't anything major worth arguing over.
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  18

  JW's, ordainment, mandatory reporting, and culpability....

  by avishai in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during the vietnam war, the jw's were insistent on stating that pioneers were "clergy" and i don't think they've ever revised that.

  now, many states have included "clergy" as mandatory reporters in cases of child abuse, so in the case of jw's, culpability for non-reporting would apply to pioneers (and possibly publishers) as well as elders.

  interesting, no?.

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• 

  drew sagan

  The way the Watchtower works this is in the way they define clergy
  
  When JWs are trying to convince others of their moral superiority (or simply puff up their egos) they will typically use the term to define what they see to be a fraudulent "clergy" in Christendom that they see as full of pride in their "position" to God. Their main focus is on a feeling of equality and not of function.
  
  When it coms into terms of function (and legality), they admit to having a "clergy" and will represent themselves in this way. Local Kingdom Halls are run in a similar fashion to Churches that have no pastor or priest and are run only by the deacons, thus creating a 'clergy' of sorts.
  
  Their main focus on the idea that 'there is no clergy' comes from a desire to simply try to appear better than other religious groups. It is a trick of definitions that means very little when one examines the organizational structure that makes up the Watchtower.
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  23

  Official Watchtower response to NBC...

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure it has been posted here, but i didn't see it so i'll put it up: .

  on the front page is a response from the watchtower to nbc.

  it reads: response to nbc.

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  drew sagan

  Just noticed something

  During the last 100 years, only eleven elders have been sued for child abuse in thirteen lawsuits filed in the United States.

  The history of the Elder arrangement (as we know it today) does not stretch back 100 years. In fact, most of the Watchtowers organizational structure as well as congregations do not resemble anything like it was 100 years ago.
  
  It really seems like this thing was written quite hastily.